Mind Over Medium

The Colorful Life of James Dean, Creator of Pete the Cat

• Lea Ann Slotkin • Season 1 • Episode 17

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Ready to embark on an artful journey with us? This episode spins the color wheel of life and dips our brushes into the vibrant hues of creativity, nostalgia, and serendipity. We sit down with James Dean, a self-taught artist who swapped circuit diagrams for sketchbooks and conjured up Pete the Cat, a character that has charmed its way into the hearts of children and adults alike.

We stroll through the lively lanes of art festivals, reminiscing about the joys and tribulations they brought, and how they shaped our creative journeys. Memories surface from our childhood art escapades, and we unpack how these early sketches traced the outlines of our current careers. As we explore the birth of Pete the Cat, James unravels the story behind his feline muse, and how he transitioned from dabbling in art to diving headfirst into a pool of endless creativity.

As we traverse through the winding path of creative pursuits, James shares invaluable advice for those at the cusp of their artistic journey, emphasizing the importance of embracing serendipity and balancing passion with practicality. We delve into the realm of coincidences, social media's dual role in the art world, and how unexpected encounters can sometimes lead to remarkable creations. Finally, we wind up our conversation with a heart-to-heart about life choices, cherishing what we have, and the joy of watching dreams transform into reality.

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Lea Ann:

Welcome to Mind Over Medium, a podcast for artists who want to make money doing what they love. When you tune in a twink, you will learn how to attract your ideal commissions, approach galleries for representation, have a great online launch of your work, and how to do it all with less overwhelm and confusion. You will have the opportunity to hear from amazing artists who will share how they have built their successful creative businesses. My hope is to create a space where artists and the creative curious can gather to learn about one of the most important tools creative entrepreneurs need in their toolbox their mindset. Thanks so much for tuning in to Mind Over Medium podcast. Let's get started.

Lea Ann:

Hi everyone, before we get into today's episode, I wanted to let you know that the waitlist is now open for my 12 week course Artful Decision Making how to transform your artistic journey from scattered dreams to focused success. If you feel like you are stuck on the hamster wheel, would love not only some support, but practical tools to create a business that makes you feel overjoyed more than overwhelmed. You should get on the list and I will offer special pricing for people on the waitlist, so you should definitely sign up. The link will be in my show notes and on my website. So head on over to leanslotkincom to sign up. Well, it's another great day in podcast land for me, because today I have the honor of chatting with James Dean. James spent several years in the corporate world as an electrical engineer before becoming a self-taught artist, whose early love of drawing eventually led him to the creation of Pete the Cat, amongst other things. I really appreciate you being here with me today, james.

James:

Thank you, leanne, it's great to be here.

Lea Ann:

Good. So I always ask my guest a couple questions at the beginning so people can get to know you a little bit better. The first one is multi-step and I'll repeat it if you need me to. I who are you, when do you live and what do you do?

James:

I am, who am I? That's a big question, right? Well, I guess you already sort of said I guess I'm most known for drawing pictures of my cat Pete, which later became a children's book, which was totally by accident Happy accident, but nonetheless an accident. And what would you say? Who am I?

Lea Ann:

Where do you live and what do you?

James:

do? Where do I live? I've lived mostly. I grew up in Alabama and I lived lived in Georgia since I got out of college, since I was 24. So I lived in Georgia a long time. I lived in various places around Georgia. I started out in Athens, georgia, and then I lived south of in a little town called Jersey and that's where the real Pete the cat lived. It was in Jersey, georgia, near Monroe, georgia, which are the little towns, and then I moved to Decatur in Atlanta and that and Pete the cat really took off in Atlanta and specifically in Decatur's, in the festivals there Then. And I lived also near Jonesboro.

Lea Ann:

You've lived a lot of places.

James:

I lived in Savannah. Then my father got sick with cancer a couple of years ago and I and so I realized that I needed to come back to Athens to take care of him. So that's where I am now. I've been in Athens for a couple of years.

Lea Ann:

Nice, so that's a good town.

James:

Yeah, yeah.

Lea Ann:

Nice. I love Georgia, georgia is a great state. It is a great state. I was very surprised at how much I liked living in Georgia. Well, thank you for that. Now the next question is describe a time in your life when you felt the most creative.

James:

Well, you know. Well, you gave me a heads up on that question Because, you know, immediately some things came to mind For sure, when I moved to Decatur, that was about the time that I decided to focus totally on Pete the cat and let go of them, everything else, and just focus on Pete the cat. And that was kind of hard because there were other things that I like to do also, and then that time was around. 2001 was a very creative time. It was very fun because the ideas were really flowing for Pete the cat, and so that was a fun time. But you know, really, the answer to that question is now is the most creative time of my life.

James:

And that's not to say that there aren't bumpy times. You know, about a week ago I felt like, well, it's all over, I think my, I think I can't think of it, I think I'm running out of ideas. But the truth is, the more you create the ease. I thought that you, I, would run out of ideas someday, but then I realized that the ideas flow easier the more you do it, and so I really don't hit too many bumpy places where I feel like I've run out of ideas, but every now and then every now and then I'll feel like it, but this week the stuff, the ideas are just. I'm just having a lot of fun this week, so that's great.

Lea Ann:

Yeah, before we started recording, we were talking about this concept of feeling like it's all gone. All your creativity, you used it all up, it's been a good run? Do you have ways of getting like specific things you do to move through those non creative times? Or do you just don't sweat it, know it'll pass it's?

James:

usually like I say I don't have it.

James:

I don't have it very much because I keep notes, I keep scrapbooks, I'm inspired by looking through magazines, or, of course, now you've got the internet, I mean, you just put me on the internet for a little while and you know, I'll see something that'll get me to thinking about something else.

James:

So, but really I do, my scrapbooks of ideas that I have are endless and I have files of just snippets of things and that's really all I have to do whenever I hit a, whenever if there's a morning when I don't specifically have something to do. I've heard of other artists who they when the writers and artists and songwriter and musicians all kind of have the same deal with creation, but a lot of writers I think Ernest Hemingway would stop writing when he felt like he knew what he was going to write the next day, and I think and I do that I started doing that without knowing it, you know. And then I've heard of other writers who do that. I think Stephen King sort of knows what he's going to write the next day and I and usually when I stop painting, I've started three or four new ideas that are kind of half finished that are.

James:

I've got them lined up on the floor and I know in the morning when I wake up I just pick those up and start and then I'll get another. I usually get another idea, so I don't have much problem with that. Really, that's good. That's really good.

Lea Ann:

For me I find if, like, for some reason, I've taken a break, like you know, gone on vacation or life or whatever, and there's like more than a week when I haven't made anything for myself, I haven't made anything or created or even sketched in my sketchbook, that's when I start getting that not great feeling like, oh, I've forgotten how to do all this. So it's usually a time thing.

James:

Well, you know I didn't. I stopped drawing after I got out of college and I was working as an engineer. I stopped drawing for 10 years. 10 years, that's a long time, but somehow I knew my plan was to go to art school when I turned 65. Well, guess how old I am?

Lea Ann:

Let me guess.

James:

So you know, that was even when I was in engineering school.

James:

That was my plan, but I knew that, even though I didn't draw anything for 10 years, I somehow knew that it was still there. It gets rusty, it will definitely get rusty, and so, you know, I don't think that I can. I don't even think it's good for me to stop for a few days, really, you know, because you do get rusty and I was really focused on drawing during that period of time when I started back in the early 90s, and when I go back and look at some of those drawings that I love to draw buildings and cars and things like you know and I look at some of those drawings and they were so freaking good I mean, they were not that I'm bragging on myself because I'm not a very talented artist really but I was really at a peak then and then I quit doing that those landscapes and those really tight buildings and now I'm not, as I don't have that skill like I did Now. Could I get it back? Yeah, absolutely believe it's still there and if I worked on it it would come back.

Lea Ann:

I do think it is oh, go ahead, I'm sorry.

James:

You do get rusty, you do, you can get rusty.

Lea Ann:

Yeah, and I do think that it is almost like a muscle that we have to develop, like we're going to the gym and then when, if you take like a week off from the gym, you lose a little bit, but then it comes back. So it is, it's just muscle memory essentially.

James:

Yeah, I don't like to stay away from it very long and I don't think I don't. The other thing that I realized you know, sometimes I think that my life is very boring. I get up in the morning and I get a cup of coffee and I go to work quote, unquote, work. But it is that work ethic that I go at it every day and I go at it for hours every day and I had this idea that maybe I could sort of retire and maybe travel and do other things. But I don't really. I think that doing it every day is important and if I get away from that too much I'm going to lose something.

Lea Ann:

Yeah, it really. I mean it's your identity. I mean for me it feels that way and it sounds like that in a good way. Yeah just like part of who you are as James Dean, being James Dean in the world, so that makes sense to me.

James:

Yeah, and I don't want it to be too much of, I don't want to identify myself too much as Pete the cat, you know. Even though that's the way people call me, pete, it's fine and I don't mind it and I love it, you know. But you know. But at the same time I just don't. I don't think I would do as well if I didn't get up every day and get a cup of coffee and go to work. I just I think that's important.

Lea Ann:

Yeah, I agree. Well, as I was making myself some notes, as I was preparing for our chat, I thought about a couple of things we have in common. Do you want to hear?

James:

Oh, absolutely yes.

Lea Ann:

Well, when we both have a real soft spot for Bobby Slotkin.

James:

Oh, I'm so glad you said that, because if you could say it, I was going to say it. Yes, he is. Oh, he is such a blessing to me. Yeah, I'm emotional and I do cry, so I'm going to try not to, but yeah, no, go ahead, Bobby's important to me.

Lea Ann:

Yes, same Bobby's my husband and he is your attorney. So and friend.

James:

Agent. He's a lot to me, he's a lot. Yeah, he's a dear friend.

Lea Ann:

Yes, yes, and that's how we met you and I.

James:

Yeah.

Lea Ann:

Through Bobby. Well, the other thing we have in common is that I think and correct me if I'm wrong I think that we both used art festivals as kind of a jumping off point to get our creative careers going as we transitioned out of being the corporate world. Is that true? Because I know that's what I did, but I feel like that's what you did too.

James:

I love art festivals and I don't do them anymore and I miss them so bad because that yeah, absolutely. That was the thing that made money, Mm-hmm, you know, but more than that, I just was good at it. I loved it. You know Some people don't like it, but did you? How did you feel about putting up a tent and all that? Did you mind?

Lea Ann:

You know, I really like co-opted my entire family. I mean. I have a very specific memory of doing the Decatur Arts Festival. It was like, I think, the last one before COVID and my boys were in high school and I remember they I just like walked away and they had all their friends there. They set up my tent for me. I'm like this is great. So if I could just have that, because that was a lot for me. And so, yes, I still have my tent, I won't get rid of it. It feels like a security blanket a little bit for me. Yeah, so in a while I'll think about oh, my God, I could do that. You know, I'm still on some mailing list. I loved the interaction with people.

James:

Yeah, that was me too. I mean kind of surprising, because I'm an introvert.

Lea Ann:

Yeah, me too yeah.

James:

But that was easy for me and it was fun. And I was probably. Let's see how old was I when I did my first festival.

James:

I think I was 41, maybe, okay so I was a lot younger than I am now and but I did a lot of festivals for over 10 years and I was young and strong and you know I look back on it now all the energy that I had then and you know I could go to say Inman Park and set up the festival and I had at one point I had a really elaborate setup. I had my walls were doors, holocore doors, so I had all these doors that I had to haul out of my van and set them up and put screws in them and all this kind of stuff. And you know now if I tried to do that I would just be exhausted, that may have to go take a nap somewhere, but you know I would do that, talk to people all weekend and tear it all down and go home. Of course I was tired the next week. I mean it took me about a week to recoup, but I love the whole thing. I mean it was great.

Lea Ann:

Yeah, I don't know. I mean it is, it is a ton of work, Like the people who just do this circuit and that's like their essential, essentially their full time job. I'm like, wow, you're amazing because it's a lot of work.

James:

Yeah, you pretty much. I mean people ask me for advice, you know, and that's that's one of the things that I go to. I tell them you know about festivals and you know I can tell most of the people I talk to they're never going to do it because that just does a lot of work and it is.

Lea Ann:

Yeah, I have fond memories, you know. And then of course there's those like ones that stick out where the weather's terrible or something You're like. That's just part of it we're doing that.

James:

I'm sentimental about remembering the festivals when it would rain and all the customers would go away and then I would go down and buy some food, you know, and maybe some wine or something, come back to the tent and sit in the tent and listen to it rain and eat and, you know, maybe some die hard. People would come and talk to you and some I remember even some festivals it was raining so hard that, you know, there was barely a place to stand in the tent that wasn't gushing water under your feet. That comes, yeah. And I guess the worst time is one time at the Dogwood Festival in Atlanta. It was we were trying to set up and it was lightning.

James:

Oh yeah, you were out there and Kimberly and I were out there trying to set up those metal poles and it was lightning. And we just got after a minute we looked at each other and said what are we doing? I mean it was pouring down right. We went and got in the car and sat for a while and laughed. I mean I have a lot of beautiful memories. Yeah, eating the rain is a beautiful memory to me, you know.

Lea Ann:

I remember one I can't remember which one I was doing. It was somewhere around Atlanta and it poured down rain and people ran into I like it came up really fast. I had people run into my tent and I zipped all the sides down and there were probably like 12 of us in my tent. Right yeah, here comes like a sauna. Yeah, so funny. Yes, yeah, I had a very nice captive audience. I think I had good sales from that.

James:

Absolutely. You know, oh, I don't have a tent right now. Kimberly's got the tents and I don't have any right now. But I'm thinking about doing a show, a festival.

Lea Ann:

Oh, nice, yeah, I got. Well, you can borrow my tent.

James:

Okay, yeah Well, kimberly, let me borrow a tent too. Okay good yeah, but.

Lea Ann:

Well, as I was looking through your bio, it said that you like to draw Snoopy as a kid, and I did too. But it also reminded me and I wanted to ask you if you remember Something else we haven't, I know. This might be a fourth thing. Do you remember in the back of magazines as a kid where you could draw tippy the turtle or tiny the mouse or the pirate and send it in Like to win a prize? Do you remember that?

James:

Let me tell you something, my father, if you sent those pictures in, they would try to sell you art schools.

Lea Ann:

Yes.

James:

That was one of my father's jobs was he went out and went to people who sent those in.

Lea Ann:

No way.

James:

Yes, famous artist school, I think, was one of the companies that did that. How about that?

Lea Ann:

That is hilarious. I mean I would wait by the mailbox, be like when I want to win and I want to get into art school. I would draw the turtle mostly.

James:

Wow, how about that.

Lea Ann:

That's amazing yeah. Oh my gosh it's a big connection there. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Well, let's talk about Pete the cat. Can you give us a bit of his origin story?

James:

Yes, so I owe a lot to a lot of people who gave me advice along the way. I was always looking for people to talk to and ask questions. I didn't go to art school and I was just trying to figure it out on my own, and one of the people that helped me was Camille Morgan, and Camille managed the frameworks on Clayton Street in Athens and so she was great. I really got started drawing pictures, like, I say, landscapes and buildings, and what I figured out that I could sell was I started drawing pictures of Athens in a way, hangouts like Georgia Theater, allens, you know, restaurants and bars and that sort of thing, and nobody else was doing that. I remember I was really the first person to draw a picture of Allens and I remember I started selling them. I was like why is this kid who went to Auburn first one picture of Allens and sell it?

James:

You know this was the early nine, this was the mid 90s, anyway. So, camille, let me put my drawings of Athens in frameworks in the front window. I got to put it in the window and that was really great. Well, she loves cats, camille loves cats, and she knew that I love my cat, and it was about the time that I got peed as a kitten and she started bugging me you need to draw a picture of your cat. And I said in my mind I don't think I told her about it Really want to be a cat artist. I didn't want to be classified as a cat artist because I didn't like a lot of the cat art that I saw, and so she kept bugging me and then she made me promise to do a picture of a cat for the auction, to raise money for the Humane Society, and I ended up doing a lot of auctions. That's another piece of advice that I give to artists that I gave away so much stuff. It's hard for me to get out of that habit of giving art away because I did it for so long, but that's a good way to figure out what people like and get your name out there and that kind of thing.

James:

Well, I didn't draw a picture of a cat. I kind of forgot about it. So Camille said I was in Athens one day I was living down south of Athens at the time anyway so I said, oh, I forgot. So I went down to the art supply store and I bought like three or four colors of watercolor, some paper, a pencil, and I went to eat lunch and while I was eating lunch I drew a picture of a cat and painted it and she put it in the auction and it sold for $300. And I had never sold anything for $300, you know. And I was like, wow, okay, well, maybe if I drew a picture of a cat the way I would like to draw a picture of a cat, people would like it. So, anyway, I don't know if people are going to be able to see something if I hold something up, yep.

Lea Ann:

Oh yeah, I see, Is that the original Pete?

James:

That's the first drawing of Pete the Cat that I did in 1999. That is amazing and it was not for children, it was for adults. And when I was supposed to kids, they go oh well, that's kind of sad or that's scary, or. And so I tell them well, this was for adults and adults are weird and adults like sad things. Yes, and you know how adults are, we like sad movies and sad songs.

James:

Pete was kind of a sad story. He was taken away from his mama too soon and when I found him he was tiny and quite ugly in a cage and he but he wanted to play and I got him home and he always sucked on the tip of his tail and I think because I've only heard of one other kid in the did that and it was taken away from its mother too soon. Oh yeah, that's why. So you know there. So the long tail that I drew was because Pete always played with his tail and the tip of his tail was usually always wet, sucked on the end of his tail, which is kind of a weird thing about Pete. But I showed it to Camille, showed that picture that I just showed you to Camille, and she loved it.

James:

And then I began to put that with my landscapes at festivals and people and the. I could tell by the reaction it was different, you know. So I knew that Pete the cat was special. I tell people, you know, like when did you know Pete the cat was special from the very first drawing? Yeah, it was like nothing else I'd ever painted. And I remember at the festivals you could see the Pete the cat drawing or painting from a far distance because of all that white space. You know had this big blue cat in white space and so people would say look at that cat. I could hear people walking by my tent going look at that cat, look at that cat. So he got so much attention and finally it took me about a year or so to finally decide to do only Pete.

Lea Ann:

Was that a hard decision?

James:

Yeah, because I love doing Athens. I love the drawings of Athens. The success of those is a lot of what led me to quit my job, because I could tell that I knew how to give people something that they could hang on their wall. That's maybe not a huge aspiration in the art world Some people wouldn't think that it's a huge aspiration but I just wanted to draw pictures every day. I just wanted to be able to get up in the morning and get a cup of coffee and just paint every day. It's not that I didn't care about what I painted. I was looking for the intersection between what other people like and what I also was willing to paint.

Lea Ann:

That's a delicate thing to find.

James:

Yes, because I needed to feel good about what I was doing. I didn't want to just paint for money. Just painting for money. I wouldn't have lasted doing that. But I truly love cats. I have no problem with cats, I just want to draw them. I don't like drawing them cute. I don't like drawing cute and I don't consider what I do cute. Other people might consider it cute. The children's books get kind of cute. They get a little too cute for my personal taste, but I have to realize they're for the kids.

Lea Ann:

Yes, well, that's just been a huge thing for you the popularity of Pete and the story around Pete and his complete and utter coolness, which you conveyed that with your artistic talent. That's a hard thing to do too. So, yes, I think it's just a really interesting story. It's so fascinating. I think it was really brave that you decided to go all in on this one particular thing, because I work with a lot of artists, I coach them and I would say one of the biggest things that they have a hard time and I will include myself in this we have a hard time doing is focusing in on one thing, because we have lots of ideas and they all seem good. So that was a really bold choice to do that.

James:

Yeah, that's it. I mean that is one of the big problems that artists have. It's huge. I see that a lot. I've even met artists who they kind of like computers and so they ended up spending a lot of time doing computer stuff instead of painting. And I mean you can just lose focus on your marketing side and not so it has to be, and then a lot of artists they spend way too much time painting and no marketing. But you have to have a balance. So artists have to really that focus problem. And then what are you going to be known for? What are people? I think it's easier it's not an absolute, but I think it is easier to be known for something. Yeah.

Lea Ann:

Yeah Well, does the popularity of Pete In this image I mean, he's iconic that keep you from creating other things that feel good to you, like more architecture? I mean, do you do that for fun or do you just focus solely on keeping Pete fresh?

James:

It's mostly Pete, but I do. There's periods of time where I try to do other things, but I also do architectural buildings and things and put Pete in there. So it's kind of neat because I can draw a picture of, say, new Orleans or Athens or you know, and then when I'm kind of through with it I have to figure out where Pete's going to go. And sometimes he's very small. I mean, it's almost like it's not a Pete painting and those things sell, you know, and some people want Pete to be front and center in the painting. They want him to be large. But I think it's kind of fun, and evidently other people do too, because they purchase these paintings and Pete, you'll kind of have to find him in the paint. So that's a trick that I use.

Lea Ann:

Yeah, and I always find that interesting. It's like when it's a little bit of a surprise you're like, I like that.

James:

Yeah, I do too.

Lea Ann:

Yeah, that's great. So when you decided to pursue creating on a regular basis and you were starting to get traction, it sounds like you had a lot of people that were willing to give you advice, which I talked about this yesterday when I was interviewing someone for the podcast. The art community is just a lovely community. Oh yeah, do you agree? Yeah, so nice.

James:

I had. That's something I always say. You know that people were so nice. There were a few people that were hard to deal with, you know, but not many, and most people are very gracious about paying you and things like that. You know people who really love art. A lot of them. They don't want to even talk price, they just come in and pay you your price, you know, and you've got some people who come in and they want to get you down to the lowest dollar, but most of the time they kind of respect artists that they're trying to make a living. Yeah, yeah, and it's and you're dealing with people who are happy. People are generally happy when they're purchasing a piece of artwork. So another thing that I love about it is you're dealing with people when they're at their happiest moments. What a job to have, right.

Lea Ann:

I know right, we're so smart that we did this.

James:

You don't have a choice. You don't have a choice in life. You really are born with certain. My father was born with this incredible talent, unbelievable gift from God, and so I grew up with this man who had this talent and didn't realize how much talent he had and never made a dime off of it, and so that was another thing that I had to deal with is that I was looking at this man who didn't sell anything, who had way more talent than I did, so I learned early on that you can have incredible talent and it doesn't mean that you're going to make money. That was what I learned as a kid.

Lea Ann:

Yeah, that's interesting.

James:

I don't have a way to do this, but you really don't have a choice in life. It's more of a you know something that bugs me that I have. I'm going to talk about it. People talk about it that you can do anything you set your mind to, and you just hear that all the time. And I understand why we want kids to believe in themselves, but that's really the wrong way to go about it. Yeah, I mean, I could be an electrical engineer and I could go to engineering school and I could get through all of that you know, and it could be tough, but it's more about finding out what God really gave you.

James:

That's what we're trying to do.

Lea Ann:

Yeah, yeah, and I know definitively there are things that if I just like set my mind to it, I could not do. So I just couldn't do it. But you know, we do tell. Yeah, that is a message that we give to kids especially, and I think I wonder what the alternative would be like instead of, you can do anything you put your mind to. Maybe it should be. You can do anything that your heart tells you. I mean, it feels like it needs to be more heart focused, more like, but like emotional than what's the word. I'm more like you're my setting your mind to something. I'm not saying that very well, but I think we need to reword that phrase.

James:

Yeah, I don't know how you get around that. I've thought about it a lot, you know and so you want to be careful. You know what you tell kids you know, I don't talk to kids about this, but I thought I'd talk to you about it but something that's.

James:

It's something that's on my mind and somehow you. When I go talk to kids, I ask them what are you? One of my favorite questions to ask them, and usually the first thing that I talk to them about is what do you want to be when you grow up?

James:

I think you know, the first thing that I really wanted to be was an artist. I was, like you said, drawing Snoopy and cartoons Yogi Bear, and that was in my head. I would love to be an artist, but I'm not sure. How on earth do you become an artist? And then I was looking at my dad and all his talent and you know it's like, well, he didn't do it. So why do I think I could do it? Yeah, yeah.

Lea Ann:

I wonder, for me it felt like that was the first time as a kid, like my creative bug or interest. It's the first time I ever felt like I was a bit good at something, like I stood out a little bit, like I noticed that. I remember as a kid noticing that and I think that helped nurture that part of me. Did that happen for you?

James:

Yes, kids, kids liked my drawings and Snoopy and kids would have me draw pictures and Joe Cool is my favorite Snoopy, oh yeah, for sure. And I think I really stole Joe Cool and kind of put him into Pete the cat.

Lea Ann:

So I think that's what that came from.

James:

But yeah, I had kids and I would draw pictures for like book reports and things. You know I got feedback from the teachers but we just I never had an art teacher in school, ever, not one. My father didn't talk to me about art. My father wanted me to be a musician.

Lea Ann:

Okay.

James:

I think that he secretly wanted to be a musician.

Lea Ann:

Yeah.

James:

And he put that on me but that's. But I wish he hadn't done that, because that's not really my best gift. You know, I spent a lot of years thinking about being a musician.

Lea Ann:

Oh cool Do you play any instruments now.

James:

I still my dad bought me a piano and we were very poor and somehow dad bought us a piano. You remember those old antique pump organs? Yeah, the pedals with your feet yeah, that was what he bought first. Oh, wow, and that's what I and I was taking piano lessons and going home and practicing on this crazy pump organ thing. And then he bought me a piano and he really pushed me and told me that I could be a concert pianist and all that. So I really put that dream in my head and so I took piano lessons a while back. But I've decided I'm more focused on the guitar.

James:

And I have just about learned the whole neck of the guitar where all the notes are on the neck, and so, yeah, and I still play. I still play that from time to time, but mostly I paint pictures, yeah.

Lea Ann:

Yeah, that's great. Going back to what you were talking about, like drawing in school, yours was Joe Cool. Do you know what? This isn't so embarrassing? I would draw pictures of the band Kiss in full makeup.

James:

Oh man.

Lea Ann:

They weren't good, but I remember kids being like that's, so I mean, I've not thought about that in decades.

James:

So okay, so here's my Kiss story. I was in college I started in 76 in college and I had this friend and he had a girlfriend and they were going to a concert and she couldn't go and he said I got this ticket, why don't you go with me? I didn't really know who Kiss was and so I got to see Kiss in concert. It was probably 1977 and it was one of my favorite concerts I've ever been to in my life. I still love Kiss. I have drawn, I've done made a couple of paintings of Pete the cat in Kiss makeup.

Lea Ann:

That is awesome. I didn't know that. That is so great. Well, as someone who was self-taught as an artist, I'm sure you get asked for advice of people wanting to pursue their creativity. What advice do you give them or would you give them? We're just getting started.

James:

I really the best. Do you know Elizabeth Gilbert, who wrote the book Eat Pray Love, and she wrote this book called Big Magic?

Lea Ann:

I love that book.

James:

You love that book. Okay, that book has become sort of one of the things that I tell people when they're looking for advice, because I like the way that she talks about. You know she's a writer and so writers can express things better than artists can. You know they express things in words better than let me change that. They express things in words typically better than artists do most of us. And she goes at it that she almost talks like trying to be an artist full time and making your creativity earn your money is kind of a long shot, you know. And she says you should use your creativity, but it's okay to have a day job, and she doesn't tell people to take a big risk, although she calls it Big Magic.

James:

But you know what? I'm so glad that I studied electrical engineering, even though it was a very difficult path and I got to. I think if I had not done that and because I do like electricity and I like working on things and I think I would have spent my whole life wondering about that I do like learning things and so that was important for me. And the other thing that was important for me was that I got to experience working in a corporation and corporate life and it doesn't fit me very well. But so, you know, I think you should have a day job and maybe I quit my day job a little too soon, you know, and I think Elizabeth Gilbert would probably say, yeah, you quit your day job too soon. You took too big of a risk, you know, and maybe I did, but I experienced all that magic that she talks about and there were so many coincidences that happened to me once I got on the artist path. It's like there wasn't much magic happened to me when I was an electrical engineer. That was not a magical experience to me and it was so bad in some ways it was so bad that it made me so happy to be at art festivals. And one thing I love about doing podcasts and I did a keynote the other day is because I sit around and I think about my life and I think about what I want to say. But it just makes me kind of go back through everything and rethink everything. And I went back and I listened to. Even though I love Big Magic, I hadn't looked out there on YouTube to see if Elizabeth Gilbert you know what she had on YouTube.

James:

This morning I started listening to Elizabeth Gilbert and the more I listened to her, she just it's like we parallel each other so much. I mean, her thoughts are things that I've thought of, you know, and when I read that book Big Magic, I was like, dang, I wish I could have had this book Big Magic when I was starting out, because, you know, I could have learned so much from her. But you know, one thing she said this morning that I've been thinking about is she said that she is not a competitive person, but she's an ambitious person. And you know, I thought, well, dang, I don't want to say that I'm an ambitious person. That sounds terrible, but maybe that's part of me not being competitive. And if you know anything about engineers, I love engineers. I love them to pieces, I love being around them, I love talking to them. I still have great friends, but engineers, they all want to be the smartest dang person in the room and so they are all A-type personalities and they're very competitive and I don't think I'm like that. I'm just I don't fit very well in that environment.

James:

And one thing I've always thought about being an artist is we don't compete with each other At all. We really, I mean and I've been around artists who kind of thought they competed with me and I just thought how absurd to feel like I'm your competition, because I, you know you artists are. It's all about just finding out what you do. And that's what Elizabeth Gilbert said this morning about being ambitious. And she says I'm ambitious, that I want to be my whatever God makes. She didn't say like this, but whatever God made me, I want to be the best. That yeah, and so I'm not competing with you. I'm just trying to figure out who I am. And man, I just, like you just said that. You said what I've been thinking about, you know, and she just does that over and over. So, yeah, that's one of my well, that's one of my big things that I would tell other artists. I wanted to talk about something that your husband and I experienced one time.

Lea Ann:

Yeah.

James:

Tell me.

James:

I don't know how much time we have but it's good to do with Elizabeth Gilbert, and one thing she talks about in her book is that if you have an idea and you don't use it, these ideas they kind of float around in the universe and when it comes in your head you better do something with it because it will float to somebody else and they will use it, and so you read the book. Do you remember this story about she had this crazy idea for a book and she didn't use it and she met this other author and the other author ended up writing that book. Do you remember this story?

Lea Ann:

Yeah, remind me what book. I know what author you're talking about. Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. I love this. I love this concept and idea because I think it's true.

James:

It's absolutely true. I mean, it's just the weirdest book concept you've ever heard of. Well, the author, her friend the author when I read the book I had no idea who Anne Patchett was. Okay, so so anyway, bobbiet, your husband and I went to I think it's Nashville, where she has her. She has opened a bookstore and she opened it at a time when bookstores were going out of business right and left and the bookstore in Nashville had closed. So she opened a bookstore there and I didn't know who she was and my editor was coming down from New York to see Anne Patchett and it. I just didn't know who she was.

James:

And I went in there and Anne was sitting over there signing these books of the Dutch house Great book. I see authors signing books all the time and I didn't think anything about it. And so then she's talking to me and my editor comes in and Bobbiet's there and we go out to eat lunch together and I'm sitting there and Anne Patchett starts talking about being on the front page of the New York Times and I mean, she's not bragging, she's not bragging. I really liked her. But then she was talking about that Tom Hanks was going to read her book, you know, and that was when the light bulb came on. It's like, oh my gosh, who is this person that I'm having.

Lea Ann:

They're kind of a big deal.

James:

Yeah, I'm embarrassed. Okay, I'm embarrassed to this day. I'm just totally embarrassed. And of course now I'm a fan of Anne Patchett and I've read her books and I go online and I listen to her. But it was Anne Patchett who wrote Elizabeth Gilbert's book.

Lea Ann:

Isn't that?

James:

crazy, it's crazy. And it's crazy that I even got to have lunch with Anne Patchett, because how many people you know? Bobby Slotkin and I sat there and had lunch with Anne Patchett and there were people who would die to have lunch with Anne Patchett. So here's the thing I mean. You know you should try to find whatever it is you're supposed to be doing on this earth, because once you find that thing, magic is going to happen. And you know, here's this poor kid from North Alabama and I've been number one on the New York Times bestseller list.

James:

It's not what I was trying to do. When I found out I was on the New York Times bestseller list for the first time, I literally hit the floor. I couldn't believe it, you know. And so so you know. Getting back to what you tell artists, what you want to convey to them when they come up to me, it's like, really, I can't tell you. You know, and I did the same thing. I went to every artist I could find and I asked for advice looking for that silver bullet. I know, but it's not, that's not it. You just go out there, you start talking to people.

James:

Maybe you end up putting up tents at art festivals, maybe you you know, and from there you meet other people and you get in galleries and you meet other artists and you know I met. I ended up meeting this weird guy with curly hair named Eric Litwin. He knew about me from art festivals and he had written this story about a little girl who wore white shoes and she stepped in strawberries and blueberries. And he changed it without my knowledge to Pete the cat and started telling it to kids and you know, and then you know how I met Eric Litwin.

Lea Ann:

I don't know if I know this, but I remember being at your like book first book party at like someone's house or something like that a long time ago. So I don't know if I know how you met him.

James:

So you were there at the first when we self published, yes, and so I was driving into Atlanta one day and I had this old 65 Chevy and I had.

James:

I was crazy then because I had painted big Pete the cats on the doors of my old Chevy and I was driving it around Atlanta like some people must have thought I was had lost my mind, and I knew that people would think I had lost my mind, but I was, all you know I was. Well, I pulled up to this traffic light in front of manuals Tavern in Atlanta and there was this weird guy standing on the corner and he said I just recorded a song for you and I looked at him like you've lost your mind, you know, and that was Eric Litwin and he truly had been to his studio that morning and happened to take a walk and he was standing at that street corner and I pulled up in my car which I never went into downtown Atlanta, hardly ever and that's how I met Eric. That's crazy. There were just all kinds of really magic coincidences that happened and thing. You know things, like being on the New York Times bestseller list or eating lunch with Anne Patchett.

Lea Ann:

You know just things that you do when you had Pete was on Amazon Prime. I mean, he's Pete has his own show.

James:

Yeah, he became a cartoon, you know, it's amazing.

Lea Ann:

Yeah, yeah, that idea of I mean this is like drilling it down to what it not is, but it's almost like use it or lose it concept, because, yeah, someone else and I think in that book did she say that when she was with and she hugged her and she's like this is when the transfer I just read that this morning. Yes, yeah, you got a good for you.

Lea Ann:

Oh, for some things, some things I don't remember at all, but I, yeah, but yeah, I really liked that book a lot, and I think to. I see, I think this for me, it feels like social media has skewed people's view of what this looks like, like, what we do looks like, because, of course, you're just giving your highlight reel on social media, and so, I mean, the reality is it takes a lot of putting your head down, getting the work done, like I mean what. I think one of the things that you seem to be really good at is focusing in on one thing and really fine tuning your craft, and I think social media is great for artists. I think it's opened up a world that we've not, you know, we wouldn't have been exposed to, but I also think that it can be a huge distraction and paint a picture that can be misleading. What do you think about?

James:

that. Oh yeah, I'm sure you know, I know there's all this fake social media going on to, where people have fake fans and all that. So it's, yeah, it can be very deceiving and kind of deceitful and I mean you can get involved with all kinds of things. I guess I'm thankful I didn't have that to deal with in the 90s, you know, we didn't really have the internet at all I mean then.

James:

so I didn't have any of those kind of distractions and it was just handing out business cards at art festivals. Yeah, pretty different world, but I still think the art festivals probably work. I don't know, yeah, I don't know?

Lea Ann:

Yeah, I feel like COVID really. I mean, I feel like that business model took a hit during COVID, but I'm sure they're back. I mean, I see them up and around when I'm driving around Atlanta.

James:

So I go to art festivals. I try to go to, you know, as many as I can, which is not many, you know. So so, yeah, they're still out there, but there are a lot of other options, you know. Yeah, you know it, I took a very slow, long, slow route, you know, and I think slow is good. I think trying to get there really fast, you know, like trying to get your fans up on social media and get a big fan base, and all that trying to do it quickly, which is what I feel from most, from a lot of the people that I meet that are asking for advice. They want me to tell them the quick way, and then I tell them well, you know, it took me about 10 years to really to really start making a living, to really to get there, and that's not what people want to hear.

Lea Ann:

Yeah, it really isn't, it definitely isn't. I had a question there and it just flew out of my brain. It might come back to me. One thing not related to what we were talking about right there, but a new question that I have does the isolation of our work ever get to you or bother you, and if so, how do you handle it?

James:

I'm good at that too. There, you know, there's certain things. You know I'm not a great artist, but I'm like you said, I'm good at focus and I'm good at quiet. You know, I think some people have a really hard time with quiet, but I can come in here in my studio in dead silence and work for hours, and you know, if you can't, if you can't do that, you know, like when Kimberly and I got married, she would come down to my studio and you know, and I told her, you know I I tried to tell her in his general way as I could. You remember this well. You know that. You know I needed to have a lot of quiet time to do what I do.

James:

And but after a while I got more used to having her pop in and talk to her. It worked out better. But if you I mean really you have to go so that you can hear what's inside of your head, you have to go to some quiet. And I'm not saying, you know, I think people who have music playing in the background all the time, that's probably fine.

Lea Ann:

You know, yeah, what's next for you? What, what fun things do you have going on?

James:

What's next? I have to finish a book by the middle of next month. I'm working on a Pete the cat book. I wanted to do a book about ice cream. I told Kimberly. I said, you know, I want a book about ice cream. And I told her I wanted a book about cupcakes. Yeah, and that turned out to be one of our best books. And then I told her I wanted a book about pizza, and I love that book. And so now I told her I wanted a book about ice cream. I don't always tell her what I want the book to be about. We just kind of you know, kind of bounce ideas back and forth. But this one's about ice cream, but it's about delayed gratification and that you know Pete's trying to go meet the ice cream truck and he's in a big hurry and he keeps running into his friends who, like Grumpy Toad, has flat tire on his motorcycle and things like that, and you know he has to stop and help and he ends up sort of almost missing the ice cream truck, you know that's great.

James:

It's a great book about kindness, so I'm really happy with what Kimberly did with it.

Lea Ann:

That's awesome. I can't wait to see it and read it. We had a ice cream truck experience, like a week or two ago. Our grandson well, now grandsons live here now and so on Thursdays, bobby picks Ernie up from school and then brings him back to the house. And we were sitting outside and I could hear an ice cream truck, so it sounded far away. So we jump in the car and we're driving around the neighborhood. We could not find the ice cream truck. It was a huge let down. So I know it was crazy. I'm like we never found it. We never found it.

James:

No, Did you go? Did you go get any ice cream after that?

Lea Ann:

You know we didn't because I had dessert already at home. So yeah, he was disappointed.

James:

I was disappointed. Ice cream is one of my favorite weaknesses.

Lea Ann:

Oh nice.

James:

I don't buy it very much because I tend to eat it so fast. Yeah, but I thought that was the other reason I wanted to do a book about ice cream, and I think y'all have a new grandchild, right.

Lea Ann:

We do. Yes, he's what is today. He's three weeks old, his name's Leon and he's delightful. Bobby and I kind of like have to duke it out to see who gets to hold on, but he usually lets me win.

James:

Oh man, there is nothing like grandchild.

Lea Ann:

Oh my gosh.

James:

I, you know. I remember the first time my grandchild said I love you, pop. Aw, that's forever. Yeah, nothing like that. She was like two, two and a half when she said that it was. It just flew all over me like nothing else ever had.

Lea Ann:

I know it's so fun. It's so fun and it's been a good incentive. I'm like we've got to stay in shape Because they keep you busy.

James:

Oh yeah, I'm happy. I'm happy for y'all, very happy yeah.

Lea Ann:

I do.

James:

You know that's. The other surprising thing about Pete the cat is that you know there's very few books, that children's books that the adults know about. There's really very few, and so I've been fortunate that Pete the cat has somehow done that. I still marvel at it, but so I remember when Pete made it to the schools and the teachers knew about it and then the children knew about it, but then when the parents knew about it and then the grandparents knew about it, and so you know I talked to more grandparents now than anybody else, you know it's a true gift what you've given the world with Pete.

James:

Well, it's just a gift to me. Is the way?

Lea Ann:

I see it, yeah, but still just came.

James:

It came through me, and that's what I love about it, the fact that it's not something that I was trying to do, and it just, it totally came through me, and so I can't claim a lot of credit here, and I like it that way, you know. Yeah.

Lea Ann:

Yeah.

James:

It's magic, it's. We're getting back to the president.

Lea Ann:

I know right, yes, magic, it's complete magic. I want to be respectful of your time. I have one other question for you. If you could go back to when you started on this creative journey, would you do anything?

James:

different. I, you know, okay. So I'm 65 years old and I think, as you get older, you know, I think when I'm, if I live to be like 90 years old, I'll just be sitting, and I think my grandfather did this, he lived to be like 94 and sitting in a chair, and I think you're just rethinking your whole life over and over again, you know, and I'm already doing that. So so yeah, I mean, I think about all these scenarios, about what I would have, should have, could have done, but I don't know it's.

James:

It's really not worth thinking about. Yeah.

Lea Ann:

It really is, you can't change it.

James:

It's kind of tantalizing, though. Yeah, what people don't understand about me is how much I've even though I draw a silly cat for a living. They don't realize how much I love fine art, and so I really what I wonder about is if, if let's say that my father had encouraged me to be an artist and let's say that my father had figured out how to sell paintings or found a gallery, or if a gallery had found my father and my father had become this successful artist, and if he had said, james, I see your talent and you should do something, you know what would have happened, because you know my. I study fine artists all the time and, like Andy Warhol you know he started out in advertising. You know, and have you ever seen any of Andy Warhol's advertising drawings and things that he did?

James:

I could see myself going to New York City. This is a weird answer to your question, but I could see myself going to New York City trying to get into advertising, maybe have gone to art school and then start trying to do something in the fine art world. You know, fine artists go about it this at a totally different way, don't they? They're trying to consciously paint things that people don't understand when they paint it. Nobody's going to buy it, nobody's going to know what you're saying, except a few elite, hopefully group of people. If I could do it over, and I'd like to try that- yeah.

James:

Yeah.

Lea Ann:

Yeah, it's really interesting to think about. Well, I'm glad that you took the path that you are on now, because without it I wouldn't know you and we wouldn't have Pete.

James:

There would be no Pete.

Lea Ann:

Yeah, yeah.

James:

You know, Pete, if I hadn't made a lot of people, a lot of people were upset with me when I quit my engineering job.

Lea Ann:

A lot of my relatives oh, I'm sure that was a big deal.

James:

Yeah.

Lea Ann:

But if I had, people didn't understand.

James:

I wouldn't have experienced all this magic and I wouldn't have met you and Bobby. You know I'm happy. I want you to understand, first of all, that I'm happy with this.

Lea Ann:

Yeah, oh, it comes across truly. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for doing this with me. It's just been a treat.

James:

Well, I'm honored that you let me come and talk.

Lea Ann:

Oh, I'm so happy.

James:

I hope you'll actually put it out there, oh 100%, I will go. Oh, James, it turned out terrible.

Lea Ann:

No, not going to happen. I promise you that. Well, is there anything that you'd like to leave us with, Like do you want people to know where they can find you or find Pete?

James:

Well, what do I want? I just thank you, thank you for having me, and I'm thankful to Bobby and I just, I just appreciate y'all so much and I don't, you know, right now I don't really need anything in my life, you know, I don't think that, I don't think that you should be constantly striving for more and more all the time, you know, and so I yes, I had. Do I have thoughts about more and more, like everybody else? Yeah, but I try to just be thankful for all I've already been given.

Lea Ann:

Yeah, Well, thank you again for spending time with me. It was just a delight.

James:

Yeah.

Lea Ann:

I'm going to leave my coaching clients through and it's been very helpful. It's my way of saying thank you and keep creating.